Database Version Workflow Discussion

Transcript

Speaker 1: But right now, of course, database is not part of vertical, right? It's only OS plus GI.

Speaker 2: Yeah, so see, that's right, because once you dedicate...

Speaker 1: But what I'm saying, when they go to database, they will want that model to continue. That is, what the difference will be from their perspective is, so the same guys who are doing database today, the departments, right? The finance or whatever, whatever it is, they will be physically delegated to them. They will still submit their jobs, okay? Right? But it will get executed as part of a vertical and they will be informed, Hey, you know, we are doing the vertical this weekend, so you guys monitor your database jobs. You guys have submitted it and they have submitted, it will go into a queue and then it will get executed as part of a vertical. But they will be asked to monitor their jobs, their database jobs. And at that point, you know, their experience should be pretty much the same as what they have seen earlier. They will be with a single target. Because sometimes they may have a round of patching where there is only database, right?

Speaker 2: Yeah, some security fixes come in, some new image for database. So they can't say, hey, this is vertical, I'm seeing I've got to go through this. This is not vertical, I've got to go through this, right? You give them the same experience.

Speaker 1: But in real life, that's how it is. At least in the ones that we know. But once we do this splitting, right, I think that keeping OS and GI in one payload also is kind of a little more confusing. We may have to... It's like one-to-one is to one, right? It's not too bad.

Speaker 2: You mean resource to number of, I mean, the number of resources are just...

Speaker 1: One OS, one GI, right?

Speaker 2: Yeah.

Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, the cardinality is not in...

Speaker 2: Exactly, yeah. So that's not too bad.

Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, it's more of complete. So, okay, we'll... I don't think because it will not, like all the other decisions we made, even if it is split, will not change. But I do think that at the time of creation, if you don't have this parent-child relationship, then how is the vertical aspect kind of driven? Like the mental model that this is vertical. How does customer know that this database is related to this VM cluster, right? That part is not yet...

Speaker 3: On the job part of it, not on the creation part. In the job part of it, nothing changes, right? They have done...

Speaker 1: Yeah, so the creation part of it, also someone mentioned, right, that you will not be able to show you parent-child like that. You will have to do kind of like a... See, when you have a side panel, they can also be kind of reference resources. It doesn't mean it is a child of this, right? So parent-child relationship, do we need that tree to show that? Or can we just get away with... Because then you can also argue technically that at the time of creation, the screen...

Speaker 2: Yeah, this is... I'll tell you what will happen. Customers, like today, for example, this is part of the thing that we worked with before. What happens is they are scheduling a thousand databases for the weekend, okay? Now, in FPP, of course, we didn't have collections, right? So they have to create a thousand commands, okay? And then Friday night or Saturday, whatever it is, they will kick, run those thousand commands in lots, right? They will say, I do the hundred in batches or whatever it is, right? They do the hundred. Now, wait for 30 minutes or half an hour or 15 minutes, do the other. Keep doing that till all thousand are running, something like that, right? Now, what happens is that the... On Friday evening, there are certain internal customers come back and say, Hey, this database, I don't want, you know, there's some urgency is going on. I don't want this database to fetch. Take it out. And they get about 50 databases. That's what they said. They get about 40 to 50 databases which are supposed to be removed, okay?

Speaker 3: Now, here, for us, right, in this one, what really, that requirement will not go away. What really shows in the creation or in the, not in the creation, in the creation of the maintenance cycle, right? They need to be able to take those databases off the current cycle. So we need to be able to give them, give them. And that will be based on the database needs. You know, the guys who are doing the database with, they don't know like which VM cluster, which OS, which GI. They have the database name and they're all unique anyway. They have the database name and say, I got to go, you know, disable, you know, this database from getting patched because, you know, something important is running. So at that point, again, you know, the hierarchy really doesn't help them. The flat thing helps. They can quickly go to the database and uncheck or check or whatever it is. Don't do check or whatever, right? And then it's off the table for that round.

Speaker 1: Now, some maybe that may be true in on-prem world, but in cloud, I think the hierarchy may help. Mainly, at least with the Indian cases and all, right? They know which DB and which cluster and knowing that...

Speaker 3: We are trying to bring GOFA to cloud. We are trying to bring GOFA to cloud. Right? If you are expecting that they will change their organizational structure to accommodate cloud, I doubt it. The department guys, you know, they want to say, hey, you know, it's cloudified, that's all. Otherwise, you know, you guys continue to... Your interfaces will change. But they want, they don't want to move people out of V or do a V or... Because it's going to be done in phases, right? If an application has like a thousand databases, they might take a whole year or something or other to move those. Right? At that point, you know, there's no... If you give a search and filter that they can just come and search the DB. Even on that, like even in that parent-child. I'm just, I'm just saying that I'm just...

Speaker 2: Yeah, no, no. Yeah, you're right. Like searching on a flat database page for databases versus starting on a page which looks like VM process but also has implicit database filter in it. You may, it may not be intuitive.

Speaker 1: And it's not even, see, UI is just one thing. I'm thinking the API payload, right? So if the API query is after on the VM cluster, give me databases or is it based on databases whether people flat or not? I think all of this is coming down to flatten out the namespace. It is much more modular and extensible and aligns with the operator model. Forget the data model. Data model is only for us to execute. The operator's model is database is different, clusters are different and host is different. And that is continuing to, should be the jobs model, execution model, reporting model is what I think Sam, we are trying to get to.

Speaker 3: Yeah. Okay, that's a fair thing.

Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that will...

Speaker 3: Yeah, just, you know, let's about it.

Speaker 2: Yeah, no, yeah, I think, I think we can accommodate that. But main thing, Sahab, let us know that, you know, Sam's comment plus if you say that trees are out, then we have other problems, right? But if we can solve Sam's concerns and if trees are available, then, you know, we keep it in the, in the mix, right? So let us know, Sahab, what is the situation on tree? Because that tree thing I'm using in all other present proposals also. So it's a very important...

Speaker 4: Yeah, I'll get back on that. We haven't implemented yet, but we do have one row expansion, but multiple child resources we don't have yet. And also the ability to check, this is multi-select, the one which I, the proposal I'm working on is single select. So three expansion with, I mean, here he's not showing it, but the one which he was showing, right, the pattern, three expansion multi-row with multi or single select, that is the pattern eventually we want. I mean, not in this project, but that is the, I'm talking about a different project when I'm using that. So if multi-row is not there or multi-select is not there or single select is not there, then we have to come up with alternatives for it.

Speaker 3: Vikas, now kind of about the staging, right? Did we decide how we are going to ask for images based on version for the database?

Speaker 1: Yeah, that's something in the first screen, right? I think...

Speaker 3: I kind of forget, but where do we ask for this? Image selection based on the version.

Speaker 1: Image selection based on the... Let's say a cluster has some 19 databases and 126 databases, right? Both need to be patched. We need to ask for the image for 19 image for 26. You say you don't want a target or goal?

Speaker 3: Yeah, this is the presentation, Sam.

Speaker 1: Yeah, so this is during let's do a creative maintenance cycle. Right, so basically at that time, whatever, like ignore the two for GMI, just assume there's one OS, one GMI image version and then...

Speaker 3: Image selection, I don't see a drop down. Is it a drop down?

Speaker 1: This is the default tool where you will automatically populate the table. This is an internal API call that you will implement to show the default or the latest goal versions, right?

Speaker 3: The target version, will it show a drop down?

Speaker 1: Yeah, if you click on this drop down dot to open a drop and that assign panel will allow you to show them the whole view of the other versions.

Speaker 3: Yes, why can't they have a drop down on the database software 19.31?

Speaker 1: Because there are two types, right? If you do a drop down, you also have custom images, right? So based on that dot dot dot, that will allow you, that will have a split between whether you want to use Oracle stock or whether you want to use your custom. If you see Oracle stock, we give you the four versions which you support. By the way, those all things will change because we only allow latest.

Speaker 3: And if you do custom...

Speaker 1: The default will be the latest, that's fine, but I still, you know, we should have a drop down, right? Why do we need to go to the dot dot dot?

Speaker 3: Because you can also choose from custom images.

Speaker 1: The drop down you are asking for is...

Speaker 3: I don't think no custom image already because the customer would have created it.

Speaker 1: Correct. So that choice between whether you want Oracle stock...

Speaker 3: No, sir, that can be a drop down on the custom image column, right?

Speaker 1: But then it is either or, right? So that presentation of whether you want to go A or B...

Speaker 3: That's why I thought there will be one drop down.

Speaker 1: This is how it should work.

Speaker 4: The current idea is a simplified version of this where when they click the dot dot dot, it will show the drawer and then ignore the split, but just for each major version, they will show the drawer and then they will have this combo where they can select either Oracle supplied values or if they click on this, then they will see the other option of like the custom image.

Speaker 3: We don't even need this pop-up, right?

Speaker 4: No, but because the custom images are coming from a different compartment, different region, multi-region, that's a very interesting selection, right? So the custom images today, you can create in one region and then you can use it in some other region.

Speaker 1: Yeah, I know, but if in the pop-up screen it ignores, if it is going to show those images, we can even also show them in the drop down.

Speaker 4: No, but drop down, Sam, is like a... Can you blow this up? So the properties of a custom image are which compartment, which region, what is your display name, what is your version, when was it created. That is how another it is available or it is expired. These many properties are how you fully identify a custom image. So in a drop down, when you click here, so that is like... And also even in the Oracle stock, right, today we only show four versions. So can you go back to the other one where the Oracle stock is displayed? One of the things which is key is, right now it's showing, this is not enough. We will say, what is the version, when was the release month? That is a key attribute now because, and then if it is an MRP, hopefully the MRP will be...

Speaker 3: They have to create one per compartment.

Speaker 4: They don't have to create one per compartment. If you have access to the compartment, you can keep it in root and you can keep it in some region where everybody is pointing to that.

Speaker 3: But you need to know the location and find it.

Speaker 4: And you have to have access to it, get called privileges to it. It's more about the FSU cycle and actions having access to the image module. The idea is that during stage, you will use the FSU actions, resource constraint to access the image in stage again. So that's the responsibility. And even in Oracle stock, I think there will be a few more properties, I think, the release month. And then we will maybe, depending on how the MRP implementation goes, maybe it will be a normal image or it will be a normal image underscore MRP1, MRP2. And then the key part then will become, when was it released, the month, date, and whether it has a security yes, no, whatever. So there will be more metadata even on the stock image other than the version. So a simple drop down may not cut it. At least custom it will not. Maybe it will work for stock image, simple drop down now, but that simple drop down will also have more identifier properties in the future. So we can, that UX is not a problem. But can you go back to your UX which you were presenting to Sam, the one in the back.

Speaker 1: So Sam, the idea is that whether your target version is, actually this UX also will improve, right? Because target version, yeah, I mean, target version is derived from the stock image or custom image. And if you're doing a custom image, you will have some more attributes to show that, you know. But yeah, I think, so I think, hey Sabha, I think tomorrow somebody will be there, right Sabha, from your end. Look for it.

Speaker 4: Look for it will be there.

Speaker 1: Yeah. Okay. So anyway, we will go with this. See all these things anyway, friends, I think this has to go more rounds with a little more broader audience and probably I don't know if you're having plans to review with the one and others also, right?

Speaker 4: That's some point.

Speaker 1: Yeah. So yeah, we'll have to, yeah, so we'll have to come up with that story of review. But what I was hoping is that, yeah, we'll do a full, yeah, we'll craft that.

Speaker 2: Yes, we will do that.

Speaker 1: But I think the idea is the API should not kind of have much impact. Like even what Sam's coming, how we can achieve it with the existing ones, right?

Speaker 3: Correct.

Speaker 1: Then I think we have a story.

Speaker 2: Correct.

Speaker 1: Okay. API is fine. I mean, it's just data, right?

Speaker 2: Correct. Correct, sir. I think that that's a part. So we will go with that tomorrow and then we will kind of rehash these things as we move up with the user experience. Yes, Sabha, I please also have and then your inputs. Because the one thing Sabha, I think is all these things are...

Speaker 4: Ideally it would have been better with the UX designer and things, but I think we kind of focused on a Prince Vikas. They had these things, right? But I want your inputs also Sabha.

Speaker 1: Okay. Be more of a kickoff call.

Speaker 4: Yeah. After the kickoff. I think like we can have some finer discussions around that.

Speaker 1: I'm saying like, can we move the kickoff itself so that like I can have the concrete answer for this?

Speaker 4: No, I think let's do this because this kickoff has been...

Speaker 1: So this is the engineering kickoff. This is not the project kickoff. That's what we have. So we still have time. By the time we project kickoff, we will close out all these things.

Speaker 4: So because that way, main is see, Vikas needs that EPS and hopefully, one more question Vikas, that jobs is platted, so in the example, it will be 120 job IDs. Of which 100 will have related job ID posted, correct? But in the initial creation, when you have the parent-child, what Saba is saying, is it a flat list of, is it 120 targets or is it 10 targets with children targets?

Speaker 3: Okay, then we are good. API is good.

Speaker 4: You are, okay, API is good. So the main work is there, right? Because that will work. So you and me will discuss.

Speaker 1: Okay, good. So that means we are not changing much in the, and nothing of what last Sam said about custom image dropped down, none of that impacted the number of goal version and the representation also. So basically, we are mapping into the number of major versions in the collection. And even if you have additional metadata, you only care about the version, but all of that is just for the customer to make a choice. That if you're coming from API, you just plug in the goal.

Speaker 2: So all 19.0.x to 19.0.y and all 19.0.8 to 19.0.b. We are not having that type.

Speaker 1: No, no, what I'm saying is that for an API user, and when I'm doing this target version setting in the cycle, if I say 19.31, the only thing you care about from the custom image is the final OSID, right? You just have to go in the OSID.

Speaker 4: You have no other metadata, right? All the things we're talking about, target versions, stock image will have extra date, all of that. That is all coming from some other thing, right?

Speaker 1: Okay, update ID order.

Speaker 4: So basically, none of those things change your current. So it looks like API things have not been changed. So, so Sam, your point, I think you should ask the engineering kickoff. Like Prince said, the UX may have some transformation, right, Saba, that we can have discussions.

Speaker 1: Sure.

Speaker 4: Okay.

Speaker 1: Okay, okay, then I'm going to jump to another call also.

Speaker 4: Okay. Thanks.

Speaker 2: Thank you so much.

Speaker 4: Thank you, Sam.